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Pixel
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Post by Pixel on Jun 30, 2024 8:49:14 GMT 11
There's a couple features that pokemon is clearly veering away from as of the latest gen: held items and egg moves being the two big ones I've noticed. In Gen 8, pokemon had very vast egg move pools that were absolutely GUTTED for most pokemon in Gen 9, seemingly in favor of the more generous move reminder system (on certain, lucky mons, others just lost tons of potential coverage). We allow for back to gen 4 move tutors and TM learning. And I was wondering if other folks had thoughts on opening up egg move breeding to possibly include more than the most current gen? This would pair well with the newly introduced upgrade to the mirror herb. However, I do understand if there are difficulties or hesitations.
I'm mostly curious if folks (esp nursery havers) have thoughts on it.
After all, it's not like folks with mons with new gen invalid egg moves lose that move between gens, so logically, why couldn't that egg move breed down to its same species offspring?
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Caramell 🍬
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Post by Caramell 🍬 on Jun 30, 2024 9:01:54 GMT 11
I gave up on Egg Moves after working so hard on many of mine only to have them change. I wanted to get my pokes with a full set or 4 EMs through careful selection and chain breeding and was getting close for a few. Now? It's largely a waste. Especially when you're building whole excel sheets tracking who to evolve when, and as soon as GF takes it away your SOL sorry about your bad luck, nothing we can do for all that wasted time and effort planning. It's depressing to try. XD
Easy enough to say I'm in favor of the idea!
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Post by Jenesis on Jun 30, 2024 11:06:46 GMT 11
The biggest difficulty I could see with this is that, unlike with TMs, eggs can be spawned with random Egg Moves (such as from MotM, Mystery Gift prizes) so adding back in all the Egg Moves by default would be a giant headache for mods, who would need to check every single gen to know what Egg Moves are eligible.
However, I would support adding in an item to the nursery shop that would allow an individual breeding to include a previous gen move. Call it "Egg Timer Warp" or something along those lines.
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Pixel
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Post by Pixel on Jun 30, 2024 11:09:49 GMT 11
I would say that egg moves for egg gifts and motm be latest gen for simplicity's sake. But for trainer breeding it be opened up.
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Post by Marchbaby on Jun 30, 2024 11:12:32 GMT 11
I would have no issue allowing egg moves from gen 4 and later like the rest. In the case of MotM or other prizes we can always keep those the latest gen only to make it easier on mods and encourage chain breeding. I have a bunch of Pokemon I would love to breed moves onto but between the awful nerfs and lack of breeding upgrades the past few gens have had I have very little desire under the current setup to do so. If we did change it to gen 4 and up I have a huge backlist I would be interested in working on.
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Post by Professor Oak on Jun 30, 2024 22:11:15 GMT 11
I like this idea, although the only thing I wonder about is whether we need to do anything about defunct moves and "broken" mechanics. For example, does this bring back moves like "Assist" if someone had a legacy version of a Pokemon knowing that move? Then you could theoretically get a Prankster Moewstic and recreate "Dive Cats" type of tactics.
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Caramell 🍬
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Post by Caramell 🍬 on Jun 30, 2024 22:24:34 GMT 11
I like this idea, although the only thing I wonder about is whether we need to do anything about defunct moves and "broken" mechanics. For example, does this bring back moves like "Assist" if someone had a legacy version of a Pokemon knowing that move? Then you could theoretically get a Prankster Moewstic and recreate "Dive Cats" type of tactics. We already honor these moves as it is if the Pokemon currently knows it. We don't make Pokemon forget moves no longer used in latest games like Scarlet and Violet will say on a lot of our moves currently. Unless you mean just passing them on could prove problematic, which would be fair. The games have gotten rid of a surprising larger amount of moves than most realize since Gen 4 to Gen 9, and even more than you'd expect since say just Gyn 7 to Gen 9. There have been a lot of moves as I'm crunching in the calcs, I'll scroll down and read "this move is best forgotten. I cannot be learned" etc from Gen 8+'s update, which is surprising sometimes. xD Other option could be that we can't Egg Move any older move that's been removed from game play mechanics (examples I listed above) on latest game(s). Since Trainers are requesting for these things, it would put the onus on them to note it or have their Pokes forego possible eligible EMs, and we'd only need to double check the EM is eligible as we've always done. Currently, we allow Gen 4+ TMs with some of those being "best forgotten, cannot be remembered" moves if I remember correctly. ^^ So wouldn't stop some moves that the games have said (for whatever reason) are no longer good to keep in-game from being passed along unless we're constantly combing these and removing them (already / as well).
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Post by Pixel on Jul 1, 2024 0:30:40 GMT 11
I dont see the problem with legacy moves being kept around. After all, hidden power is a big one that we still have a TM for. Not like any of these break the game and many were lost due to better options being available or GF trying to balance their competitive meta.
And I think I once saw a video on dive cats. That is a lot of effort to recreate onsite for a meme team. xD
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Missingno.
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Post by Tiki on Jul 1, 2024 1:48:34 GMT 11
I know that TM's are gen 4 and up
but if we're talking egg move IDK why not just the latest gen before the gen 9 nerf? so i'm thinking gen 7-8? IDK
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Post by Pixel on Jul 1, 2024 1:56:35 GMT 11
I think the back to gen 4 was to align it to TMs and MTs so there isn't an extra layer of rules to remember. If movesets are current gen, and MT/TM/EMs are back to Gen 4, it's easy to remember. Rather than arbitrarily deciding which of the more modern gens has the most acceptable standard of EM pools. If that makes sense?
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Caramell 🍬
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Post by Caramell 🍬 on Jul 1, 2024 1:58:03 GMT 11
I know that TM's are gen 4 and up but if we're talking egg move IDK why not just the latest gen before the gen 9 nerf? so i'm thinking gen 7-8? IDK My thought process on it is two faceted the more I consider it. 1. We keep hyping on how we're a Heartgold / Soulsilver site. Like, every time we consider any new mechanics or gen introductions, that's tossed about pretty freely. Adding in the conversations of Gen 4+ moves that are broken being removed except when we want to keep them [TM list, etc] kind of gives the impression that "oh, we only keep the mechanics we like from that era" verses a clear "we keep up with newest gen mechanics" or "we keep all mechanics from our era and up" which is. Understandable, but doesn't make the double-connotation meaning less implied. ^^ 2. Having it either only be newest gen (and not changing anything) OR having it be Gen 4+ up would be easiest for Mods and everyone to remember. A thousand ifs and buts. "Only Gen 7+ because that's when we see the nerf the most" and "But Gen 4+ to make TM/HM list easiest to keep up with and not mess up our current mechanics" etc. Gets tedious to try and remember all the thousands of exceptions we may or may not have added for everything. ^^ Ideally, the more we open up the better to me if I'm going to start breed planning again. I was planning Nursery Breeding with EM in mind around Gen 8~ with Excel sheets and such, wasting hours in many cases - if not days - on this. So for me, personally, Gen 8+ or Gen 4+, it makes absolutely no difference for my plans and for opening them back up. ![:)](//storage.proboards.com/2475952/images/3igfqd2fyYPOCoVcYQu6.png) That's my personal bias on it, lol.
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Missingno.
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Post by Tiki on Jul 1, 2024 8:55:21 GMT 11
:shrug emoji:
gen 4+ is fine
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Post by Tarlar on Jul 1, 2024 8:58:10 GMT 11
I would like to be able to breed earlier gen's EM as well, some pokemon really got nerfed then and I like breeding and make them "special" by giving them a move which is useful, at least at some point (I'm horrible at using TM's)
I'm not sure why we would avoid some of the discontinued moves? As I understood it they have mostly removed moves which aren't used much or gimmicky? Or had other things which was similar but a bit better? they probably also have had more and worse removals which makes no sense, but I can't think of any that would be a problem to let people breed down if they already have the move. If there turns out to be something that breaks the whole board, I'd rather just handle it then, I doubt it will be a big problem.
If we keep giveaways and mystery gifts EM at the current gen, we won't put more of the old moves in of that kind anyway.
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Post by Pixel on Jul 1, 2024 8:58:40 GMT 11
So we're all pretty on board for gen 4 and up egg move pools by the sound of it?
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Post by Caramell 🍬 on Jul 1, 2024 13:14:51 GMT 11
If we keep giveaways and mystery gifts EM at the current gen, we won't put more of the old moves in of that kind anyway. This would be my ideal, honestly. Less of making staff do excess work trying to give extra perks to our freebies / giveaways and such. And more of rewarding members who want to go the extra mile planning their teams and such. Or even if its to plan for sales - that's all mine would be is mons I can use in my estate / shop / adopt / recruits / etc. ![:P](//storage.proboards.com/2475952/images/j4x3M6WbsBpReeVALlIv.png) Something that is available only if the member themself puts in the work and requests it. As it is, mons don't automatically get their TMs, HMs, or EMs passed down since you can technically request for them not to be passed down. It would just be an active requirement of the member to tell us what they want passed down for an EM and for us to check behind them. At worst, we can require they tell us what Generation the EM is from so the mod/staff member checking before spawning knows which generation to check, too.
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